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Etho

Glock: Death of A King

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I call it now, Glock will be fully dethroned from the pistol market as king  within 5 years. 

They announce the 19x today. A 17 frame with a 19 slide. What in the actual fuck? Who asked for this? A 19 frame and 17 slide, that’s pretty common mod albeit with a chopped 17 frame.

The Gen 5 is a joke of a generation change. Everything else is stagnant as fuck. Meanwhile, Sig, HK, Smith and even fucking Walther, yes Walther, is innovating and gaining customers. 

They’ve rested on their laurels too long and are too disconnected from what the public wants. We are watching a company die and languishing into mediocrity before our eyes. 

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1 hour ago, Etho said:

Who asked for this? 

The .mil, I guess.  This is their bringing-to-market of the X17 handgun entry, minus the thumb safety.  Not that I'm necessarily disagreeing with your premise.

 

 

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Lots of speculation is that Glock is marketing the X19 anyways to sort of make up for what they spent on going after the modular service pistol contract. Makes sense. That and I see a bunch of folks buying it. Glock fanboys, those who want what the military is using, those wanting what is seemingly a limited edition offtering or at least new, etc. 

I see Etho’s point. I think they’ll survive based on .mil and LE contracts, but I think they’ve lost a lot of the market due to advances by other brands (as Etho mentioned as well). I ventured to Walther PPQ and like it. Interested in the P320 as well as the CZ P10C. 

Personally, I don’t need anything ground breaking from Glock. Just continue to produce boringly reliable guns. 

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They won't die and go away. But they will not be the king and whether people want to admit it or not they have been for a long time and, arguably, still are for now. They got by on boring reliability for a long time. Well now the other guys have boring reliability with options. Not to mention options people want. 

Even their stranglehold on LE is rapidly diminishing. More and more S&W, Sig and HK is showing up in holsters. Especially the last two now that they joined the real world and started making something that isn't stuck in the 80s and doesn't cost two times what their competitors charge. Then you have little old Walther who is coming out of the back 40 with a vengeance. Keep waiting for Steyr to actually give a shit and try just like Walther. 

I like the options. It's a good thing, wonderful thing even. I'm not switching to anything else, but I like that people have viable options all within the same price range that are drastically different from one another. Nothing sucked worse than before all of this and watching someone struggle with a Glock and their only serious option was a damn Springfield. 

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I hear ya. I think options are good for sure. Competition is always healthy. If I were to carry concealed, it would be a Glock, probably 19. My 17s will be my primary training gun for the foreseeable future. 

I hear Colt suffered what Glock seems to be doing or have done. Seems like even Colt is giving into consumer pressure. 

Personally, I like to try other guns. While I am a Glock guy, I do appreciate what others have to offer and that Glock does have issues.  

One common gripe I hear is the grip angle. Well, I never really noticed either way since I shot Glock when I started getting into shooting more seriously. So I guess I don’t know any better, but it was what I learned on. So the point where while I like guns like the 1911 9 mm, PPQ, CZ 75, etc, they don’t seem a “natural” to me as I’m used to the Glock. Never felt that it was a feature that was the deal breaker many make it out to be. 

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There is a problem with their grip. When you have a cottage industry start up just based solely on modifying a specific pistol and it’s all the same modifications, there’s an issue. 

Its odd too. HK and Walther use a swept grip with a hump. But the only difference I can see is their web areas are more pronounced and their grips overall are round. 

Just by the nature of things my 17 and 26 are more rounded and they’re great. The angle really does share more in common with a 1911 than anything else but then the hump. When that thing is removed, it’s a helluva better. 

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5 hours ago, Etho said:

There is a problem with their grip. When you have a cottage industry start up just based solely on modifying a specific pistol and it’s all the same modifications, there’s an issue. 

Its odd too. HK and Walther use a swept grip with a hump. But the only difference I can see is their web areas are more pronounced and their grips overall are round. 

Just by the nature of things my 17 and 26 are more rounded and they’re great. The angle really does share more in common with a 1911 than anything else but then the hump. When that thing is removed, it’s a helluva better. 

I was more referring to the grip angle only.  Just seemed like one of those things where someone says something, then passes it on and then pretty soon it spreads and people latch onto it.  I guess I never really felt that there was such a thing as a "natural" grip angle, at least for me.  There's a lock out position forward, which no handgun grip angle gets to.  Then everything else is somewhat in between that and how far your wrist can tilt toward the sky.  Again, maybe just me.

Other parts of the grip, I hear it.  While I personally don't modify my guns, mostly because I just don't want to get started down that road as well as I tend to keep my defensive guns close to stock, I know many very good and experienced shooters who heavily modify the grip on their Glocks and for good reason.  One is a local guy and he's offered to do those mods for me.  Maybe I should try so see what I've been missing, but maybe ignorance is bliss.  Things like undercutting the trigger guard as well as forming and index channel under the trigger guard are a couple that I would try.  Many hate the finger grooves on the Gen 4. While I've found that they fit my hand well, I'm interested in trying the Gen 5 more just for that change.  I've shot the Gen 5 some, but like 120 rounds or so. 

For the grip humps in the HK and Walther, I liked the PPQ at first.  I mean I still like it, but it does change things.  I wish it had a little more aggressive texture, but that's something that is easily changed.  What I don't care for on the Walther and VP9 is that the bore axis is higher than Glocks.  It's not a HUGE difference, but I feel (or at least I believe I feel) a difference. 

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So was I. The argument on the grip angle is because of the hump at the heel. Hence why a grip reduction involves removing the hump. Once the hump is gone it's a perfectly straight, flat backstrap that is not unlike a 1911. Then the only difference is it being square. Round the corners a bit more and it's not entirely gone, but damn near. 

There is a huge difference between pistols due to grip shape/angle/whatever. While I don't necessarily think a pistol points more naturally over the other, a user points one pistol more naturally over another. If I use an unmodified Glock I'm not level and the muzzle is canted upward. 

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2 minutes ago, Etho said:

So was I. The argument on the grip angle is because of the hump at the heel. Hence why a grip reduction involves removing the hump. Once the hump is gone it's a perfectly straight, flat backstrap that is not unlike a 1911. Then the only difference is it being square. Round the corners a bit more and it's not entirely gone, but damn near. 

There is a huge difference between pistols due to grip shape/angle/whatever. While I don't necessarily think a pistol points more naturally over the other, a user points one pistol more naturally over another. If I use an unmodified Glock I'm not level and the muzzle is canted upward. 

Ahh. Never really noticed the hump. The guy I mentioned above does a grip reduction as his hands are a little “rounder fingers”, so the reduction helps his grip. Sounds similar to your preference in that it reduces the grip and rounds things out. 

I also heard many shooters who are used to the Glock grip angle say other guns initially point lower when first trying. A recent video I recall is the guy from TRex Arms and his rest of the CZ P10c, which I think is a really nice handgun. 

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I’ve only got two pistols. A 19 and a limited edition Security Six, so of course I really only shoot the Glock. But I wouldn’t imagine buying another Glock unless I needed to replace it. It’s a great gun, just not interesting. I don’t need multiple uninteresting pistols. xD There are a lot of neat pistols from other manufacturers I’d like to try though. 

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It's hard to talk about without sounding like a Glockaholic, but I really don't know what more people want from Glock.  It does what needs doing, and is boringly reliable, a very simple design.  Hell, on the X, they finally beveled the dust cover that everyone was whinging about. xD  

I'm glad that there are options out there; I also carry my SIG 320 at times, and there are plenty others out there that I'm interested in (I'm trying to keep my eyes open for a CZ P-01, I think it'd make a nice carry gun in the "something different" category.)  And I still occasionally jones for a Walther PPQ M2.

To me, it's like picking up an ordinary, every-day 16oz. claw hammer; what in the world could there possibly be left to "innovate?"  The design has evolved and been refined to the point that there is no innovation left without changing the principles of the device altogether; i.e., a pneumatic nail gun.  You can have a wood handle, fiberglass, rubber-covered metal, etc. in all kinds of colors, but at the end of the day, it has a face for driving nails, claws for pulling them, and a handle to make it all work.  Everyone and their brother makes one, from cheap junk to fairly expensive, with all different colors or materials.  But at the end of the day, it's a claw hammer.  There's no room left for true innovation.

Without sounding too "operator," the Glock design is simple, robust, and does everything that NEEDS doing, regardless of what people want or think they want (and we all know how it goes when you start delving into what people think they want or "need".... carrying defensive guns with empty chambers, Mexican carry, RIP ammo, chainsaw shotgun handles, goofy AR accessories, and on and on.)

Personally, I'm OK with Glock not being King of the Hill, and I think Etho's right about it happening.  I'm glad there are options for people that want something besides the one and only thing that works, which does indeed get boring from time to time.  But once the basics have been nailed down on a reliable plastic-framed, striker-fired bullet launcher, it's only down to choosing a color and shape that works for you.  Neither of which are true innovation, to me personally.  Say if Glock offered a humpless frame, that would be awesome for a lot of people, but is it true "innovation?"  I dunno.  I don't think so, but I may not be imaginative enough. xD 

I say, the more the merrier.  The 320 seems to be doing well, aside from the ultra-low-chance of happening drop fire issue, and the M&P line has a nice reputation going for it; I think the new Compact 2.0 will do very well.  I'm sure there are a few others, but I know less about them.

It's definitely a good time to be a shooter.

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3 minutes ago, Drck said:

Whinging I recall The Hound saying that. :D 

Does he have a Brit accent in the show?  Given the knights & dragons theme, it would make sense if he did.

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All very good points. 

Which is another topic, besides aesthetic changes or drastic cosmetic redesign, I’m not sure there’s any actual innovation left. Other than rotating barrel deal they’ve been dicking with. Mechanically, the damn things work. 

I do think a frame change would be beneficial for them. It really does say a lot when an entire industry formed around changing their frames. I’d be willing to bet half of Glocks have some sort of frame work done. 

 

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Guess they're going by the old adage if ain't broke don't fix it. Hell personally I like my dad's gen1 over my gen3 except mine has the rtf2 texturing. I'm seriously debating a gen5 19 just for the texturing and no finger grooves since I shoot his so much better than mine. Mine being a Vickers I don't really wanna go changing anything on it. 

I've had an m&p they're good guns, my buddy carries a cz75 great pistol but for me Glock just gets it done lol

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One issue with the pignose that may have some small negative effect. The use of the accessory rail may result in less than perfectly level mounting of the device.

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58 minutes ago, Lenornaph said:

One issue with the pignose that may have some small negative effect. The use of the accessory rail may result in less than perfectly level mounting of the device.

Perfectly level accessory mount? Worrying about nothing...

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1 hour ago, Drck said:

Perfectly level accessory mount? Worrying about nothing...

Weird posts like that are why I'm not convinced he isn't a spammer of some sort. Or they're from another country or English isn't their first language. The whole thing is just weird to me. 

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I think its some kind of bot that responds to certain words that match its algorithm . Some kind of advertising program.

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14 minutes ago, Meke said:

I think its some kind of bot that responds to certain words that match its algorithm . Some kind of advertising program.

Very likely. I didn’t think they were that sophisticated, but I guess so. 

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45 minutes ago, Meke said:

I think its some kind of bot that responds to certain words that match its algorithm . Some kind of advertising program.

Very likely. I didn’t think they were that sophisticated, but I guess so. 

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5 hours ago, Etho said:

Weird posts like that are why I'm not convinced he isn't a spammer of some sort. Or they're from another country or English isn't their first language. The whole thing is just weird to me. 

Giving benefit of doubt. There’s lots of “worry about nothing” posts I made back when I started. 

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1 hour ago, Drck said:

Giving benefit of doubt. There’s lots of “worry about nothing” posts I made back when I started. 

It isn’t so much the content as it is the wording. It’s just off. 

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22 minutes ago, Etho said:

It isn’t so much the content as it is the wording. It’s just off. 

I hear ya. That’s a preppy elaborate bot if it is. 

Anyway, back to Glocks...

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4 hours ago, Drck said:

Giving benefit of doubt. There’s lots of “worry about nothing” posts I made back when I started. 

This.

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